The dating site works like any other online dating service. It helps you find potential matches based on your Facebook profile. The company managed to collect funds of $600 thousand, …Apart from Ms Peh and her husband, Mr Jason Ye, 29 and Ms Seah Ling Ling, 28, got attached in March 2017, within a month of connecting with each other on the app Coffee Meets Bagel (CMB). Exactly ...Nov 8, 2022 · What is Coffee Meets Bagel? Coffee Meets Bagel was founded by Arum, Dawoon, and Soo Kang in 2012. The Kang sisters started the app because they were tired of the superficial nature of other dating apps. They wanted to create a dating app that focused on quality over quantity. Coffee Meets Bagel is an app that delivers users one match per day ... Coffee Meets Bagel was founded by three sisters who believe everyone deserves a real chance at love and knew casual swiping apps just weren’t going to cut it. Get to know us. How we do it. With over 91% of CMB Daters looking for a committed relationship, you won’t be stuck wading through singles who aren’t on the same page. Plus, we’ve ... In this article, we will explore Coffee Meets Bagel’s projected net worth for 2024, along with seven interesting facts about the app. 1. Coffee Meets Bagel’s Net Worth Projection for 2024 As of 2021, Coffee Meets Bagel’s estimated net worth is around $150 million. However, with its continuous growth in popularity and expanding user base ... Prices range from $15-$30/month. Coffee Meets Bagel (CMB) is an app that was launched in 2012 by three single sisters. The founders and their app made their way to Shark Tank in 2015 and got the largest offer in Shark Tank history - $30 million for the whole company. Ultimately, the sisters went with their guts and turned down …Company profile page for Coffee Meets Bagel Inc including stock price, company news, executives, board members, and contact informationDONT WASTE YOUR COFFEE OR YOUR BAGEL. I’m a very good looking and successful guy. 6 ft tall , 153 lbs , runner actor in movies and tv. A Zero response after $250 worth of beans purchased and used is an obvious and flagrant use of fake profiles posted on your site. Coffee meets Bagel site is a misrepresentation of what it boasts to be.Dec 6, 2023 · In this article, we’ll take a closer look at Coffee Meets Bagel’s net worth and growth, as well as what sets them apart in the market. A Glance At Coffee Meets Bagel Coffee Meets Bagel was founded in 2012 by three sisters – Arum, Dawoon, and Soo Kang – who wanted to create a dating app that was more focused on quality over quantity. CMB Prompts & Coffee Meets Bagel Review. Coffee Meets Bagel has been around since 2012 and famously appeared on Shark Tank where it declined an offer to be bought out by Mark Cuban for $30 million (latest valuation is $150 million). It’s been widely marketed as a relationship focused app with an emphasis on quality over quantity.Which dating app is cheaper: Bumble vs CMB. Bumble is potentially more expensive than CMB. Since Bumble and Coffee Meets Bagel have different paid subscription offers comparing them side-by-side isn’t straightforward.: Bumble: 1,3, and 6* month plans as well as a lifetime option. CMB: 1 and 6 month paid plans.Forbes Health evaluates Coffee Meets Bagel, a dating app that claims to deliver high-quality matches with long-term potential. Learn about the app's features, pricing, pros and cons, …Coffee Meets Bagel Dating App. Coffee Meets Bagel. In-app purchases. The dating app for serious relationships. 3.3star. 112K reviews. 5M+ Downloads. Mature 17+ info. Install. The dating app for serious relationships. More by Coffee Meets Bagel. Coffee Meets Bagel Dating App. 3.3star. Additional Information. Developer. Visit website. DONT WASTE YOUR COFFEE OR YOUR BAGEL. I’m a very good looking and successful guy. 6 ft tall , 153 lbs , runner actor in movies and tv. A Zero response after $250 worth of beans purchased and used is an obvious and flagrant use of fake profiles posted on your site. Coffee meets Bagel site is a misrepresentation of what it boasts to be. At the moment, the company is valued at $150 million. RELATED: How Lori Greiner Became One Of The Most Successful Investors On 'Shark Tank' …The Coffee Meets Bagel Boost feature could be your key to more matches in 2024. Learn the best practices to leverage it. Understand when and how to use Boost for maximum visibility on the app. Amplify your Boost effect with a profile review. Our experts help refine your profile for an unwavering impression on Coffee Meets Bagel.Many coffee drinkers agree that coffee beans ground right before brewing bring out the fresh flavor in a morning cup of coffee. You don’t have to be a barista to get this kind of f...What will the net worth of Coffee Meets Bagel be in 2023? Networth202.com estimates the San Francisco-based dating and social networking startup will be worth $150 million in 2023. Whole text. On April 17, 2012, it was initiated by …MEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many …The first column is the age of my match. The value on the left side of the colon is the category, and the value on the right side of the colon is the count. For example, I have matched with 11 22-year-olds. The second column is the university attended or attending. "Others" include non-university students, other Singapore universities, …DCM entrepreneurs are passionate about game-changing innovation, global-scale disruption, and true value-creation. We strive every day to empower our entrepreneurs to drive towards shared success. Back to Portfolio; Coffee Meets Bagel ... (Coffee Meets Bagel), Fortune. April 05, 2020. From Hinge to Tinder to Coffee Meets Bagel, ...Aug 5, 2013 · Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many suggested profiles as you want. Coffee Meets Bagel did not secure a deal on Shark Tank. The three sisters behind the dating platform, Soo Kang, Arum Kang, and Dawoon Kang, asked for $500,000 for 5% equity in their business. Despite the sharks’ interest, they could not reach an agreement. Mark Cuban dropped out early due to the sisters’ refusal to disclose their platform ...2. Arum Kang came up with the idea for Coffee Meets Bagel during an MBA at Harvard Business School. She was one of a handful of students from the HBS MBA class of 2011 to go on to start their own business. Today, Coffee Meets Bagel services globally. The Tinder-like dating app has made over one billion …Jun 28, 2021 · In 2018, Coffee Meets Bagel landed $12 million in Series B funding. It planned to put the money toward international expansion and additional live events. Coffee Meets Bagel is a dating app mainly focused on making user’s profiles better and more informational. By doing this they encourage people to engage in quality conversations and form meaningful relationships, instead of just “liking” or “disliking” each other and viewing others just as profiles, which is the case with most of the dating apps …The Coffee Meets Bagel Boost feature could be your key to more matches in 2024. Learn the best practices to leverage it. Understand when and how to use Boost for maximum visibility on the app. Amplify your Boost effect with a profile review. Our experts help refine your profile for an unwavering impression on Coffee Meets Bagel. In January 2015, Coffee Meets Bagel was featured on Shark Tank, where the sisters sought a $500,000 investment in exchange for 5% of the company. They did not make a deal with any of the sharks, notably turning down Mark Cuban's hypothetical offer of $30 million to buy the entire company, the largest offer in Shark Tank's history. MEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many …Nov 8, 2022 · Coffee Meets Bagel Worth: Arum, Dawoon, and Soo Kang, who are all sisters, are the entrepreneurs behind Coffee Meets Bagel. Arum initially came up with the concept for the app in 2011, and on April 17, 2012, the sisters introduced the app to the public in New York City. MEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many suggested profiles as you want.Dec 2, 2023 · Learn how much Coffee Meets Bagel, a popular dating app with a unique approach to online dating, is worth as of 2021. Find out the factors that influenced its net worth, such as its revenue model, marketing strategies, and investment opportunities. See the future of this innovative platform and its potential for growth. DCM entrepreneurs are passionate about game-changing innovation, global-scale disruption, and true value-creation. We strive every day to empower our entrepreneurs to drive towards shared success. Back to Portfolio; Coffee Meets Bagel ... (Coffee Meets Bagel), Fortune. April 05, 2020. From Hinge to Tinder to Coffee Meets Bagel, ...Coffee Meets Bagel started with three sisters who knew first hand that swiping doesn't work — not to mention it's totally draining. ... CMB introduces only to people worth the time. And since ...Coffee Meets Bagel is a dating app that connects you with daily curated matches, but it lacks video chat and many other features. You can like any profile …What will the net worth of Coffee Meets Bagel be in 2023? Networth202.com estimates the San Francisco-based dating and social networking startup will be worth $150 million in 2023. Whole text. On April 17, 2012, it was initiated by …The owners of Coffee Meets Bagel were on the ABC show 'Shark Tank' last week, and they turned down a $30 million offer -- the biggest offer in the show's history. WEATHER ALERT High Wind Warning.Are you a fan of both mushrooms and tea or coffee? If so, you’re in luck because mushroom-infused teas and coffees have been gaining popularity for their unique flavors and potenti...Learn how much Coffee Meets Bagel, a popular dating app with a unique approach to online dating, is worth as of 2021. Find out the factors that …You can store brewed coffee in your refrigerator for up to one week. Store the brewed coffee in a tightly sealed container to keep out any of the flavors or odors from the other it...Coffee traces its origins back to Ethiopia, where it’s said a goat farmer discovered the energetic effect of berries harvested from a certain tree. It’s clear that coffee has a lot...Why Coffee Meets Bagel Declined A $30M Shark Tank Offer?! 🤨 | #shorts We Are Looking For 100 Highly Motivated People Who Want To Start and Build Their Busi...24 votes, 23 comments. 21K subscribers in the coffeemeetsbagel community. A community for discussing the online dating app Coffee Meets Bagel ☕💜🥯 The…As of 2023, up to 25,000 relationships have originated from Coffee Meets Bagel. The company itself has gone on to become a massive money maker, with $16 million in annual revenue and an estimated ...It’s no surprise that Americans love coffee. The drink is one of those morning staples that many of us just can’t live without. When you need a little something other than coffee, ... The format overall seems more dating site-ish, rather than app, which may appeal if you liked POF (never used it, so can't say for sure). Coffee Meets Bagel is the only app that works for me. I get messages/date almost exclusively from it. I have previously swiped right on 500 women on Bumble and messages only with one. Sensor Tower notes that the total revenue for Coffee Meets Bagel on mobile apps was $1 million as of March 2023. The Mobile app revenue is $300K for Android apps and $800K for iOS apps. In 2013, the San Francisco-based app attained a momentous milestone on AppStore. Sensor Tower Store Intelligence figures show that the app accumulated $10 ... Introducing the Skinny Net Worth Coffee Meets Bagel Shirt - the perfect addition to your wardrobe for those who value both style and substance. This unique.Jan 27, 2024 · One area in which Coffee Meets Bagel outshines much of its competition is in the creativity of its founders. The Kang sisters began hosting live, in-person events in 2018 called Coffee Meets Bagel Experiences, aimed at getting members to meet up in real life. The Covid-19 pandemic made things like adult summer camps and 5k marathons difficult ... CMB Prompts & Coffee Meets Bagel Review. Coffee Meets Bagel has been around since 2012 and famously appeared on Shark Tank where it declined an offer to be bought out by Mark Cuban for $30 million (latest valuation is $150 million). It’s been widely marketed as a relationship focused app with an emphasis on quality over quantity.What this does is instead of showing a large number of profiles that aren't worth your match, you just get the tailored selective matches to choose among. They ...In 2019, Coffee Meet Bagel won the Shorty Award. This was for a marketing video they made on rapper Ice-T taking coffee and bagel for the first time. As of October 2021, Coffee Meets Bagel is estimated to be worth $150 million. The app, which was launched in 2010, has seen immense growth over the years and has succeeded amid stiff competition.I’m a very good looking and successful guy. 6 ft tall , 153 lbs , runner actor in movies and tv. A Zero response after $250 worth of beans purchased and used is an obvious and flagrant use of fake profiles posted on your site. Coffee meets Bagel site is …Today, Coffee Meets Bagel is worth $150 million and competes with some of the best-known dating apps like Tinder, Bumble, and OkCupid. Just like Mark Zuckerberg refused offers to sell Facebook and today is one of the richest men in the world, rejecting Cuban’s offer in 2015 has turned out to be the best decision …Coffee Meets Bagel allows users to send a first message along with their “like.”. According to the app’s internal data, including a message increases your chance of matching by 25%: PRO TIP: When it comes to sending a Coffee Meets Bagel first message, don’t blow it by sending something boring and lame like “Hey.”.Jan 29, 2023 · The dating app “Coffee Meets Bagel” is still going strong today and will be worth a lot, between $50 million and $100 million by the end of 2023. The company has an annual revenue of $16 million and is estimated to have a net worth of around $150 million in 2024. Many people have found successful relationships through the app, and the ... Premium Cost. When Premium Coffee Meets Bagel Is Worth It. 3 Tips For Getting More Dates On Coffee Meets Bagel. Let's dive in! Get more matches and go on …Feb 2, 2022 · Coffee Meets Bagel Net Worth. As of March 2024, Coffee Meets Bagel is estimated to be worth $150 million. The app, which was launched in 2010, has seen immense growth over the years and has succeeded amid stiff competition. The company was once able to raise more than $7.8 million in external funding, and this shows the rate of success they have. 24 votes, 23 comments. 21K subscribers in the coffeemeetsbagel community. A community for discussing the online dating app Coffee Meets Bagel ☕💜🥯 The…Jul 23, 2023 · Coffee Meets Bagel’s fortunes have increased exponentially since the Kang sisters founded the company more than a decade ago. As at November 1, 2022, the social media dating app had amassed a net worth of $150 million. The implication is that each of the Kang sisters has an intrinsic share worth $50 million in the app. Which dating app is cheaper: Bumble vs CMB. Bumble is potentially more expensive than CMB. Since Bumble and Coffee Meets Bagel have different paid subscription offers comparing them side-by-side isn’t straightforward.: Bumble: 1,3, and 6* month plans as well as a lifetime option. CMB: 1 and 6 month paid plans.Coffee Meets Bagel General Information Description. Operator of an online dating platform intended to help users to connect with each other. The company's platform allows users to skip the small talk and start meaningful conversations so that everyone gets a chance at love, also offers a platform that can handle the massive scale and flexibility needed to build an app …A community for discussing the online dating app Coffee Meets Bagel ☕💜🥯 The dating app for serious daters. Members Online • ... PS - I think it's worth sharing that for me I had the most success with CmB and Hinge in terms of matches turning into first dates. I got quite a few matches on Bumble, but only one turned into an in-person date.Coffee Meets Bagel was founded in 2012 by Arum, Dawoon, and Soo Kang, three sisters with a vision to provide a more curated and meaningful dating experience. The sisters saw an opportunity to improve the dating app landscape by offering users a limited number of quality matches each day, rather than overwhelming them with endless options.Nov 8, 2017 ... Rediscover dating. Download Coffee Meets Bagel ️️☕️❤️️ http://bit.ly/2Etd2Uh Sick of swiping right? We are, too.Coffee Meets Bagel’s impressive rise soon caught the attention of the major dating app players. In mid-2015, Tinder reportedly made an acquisition offer valuing Coffee Meets Bagel at $30 million – the same as Mark Cuban’s Shark Tank valuation. The Kang sisters turned down the offer, believing in their app’s long-term potential.Bagels, which are in the grains and starches food group, usually take around two to three hours to digest. Foods that are more dense are generally harder to digest and take a longe...A community for discussing the online dating app Coffee Meets Bagel ☕💜🥯 The dating app for serious daters. ... This was over 1 month and I've deleted them now because it's not worth the time. My opinion is that race is a large factor in online dating if you are in a multiracial society. If you are from Asia, don't waste your time. What ...MEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many suggested profiles as you want.A free mobile app called Coffee Meets Bagel bills itself as a destination for deeper, long-term relationships. I tested it primarily on an iPhone 12 mini. It’s main hook is offering users daily, curated matches, called “Bagels.”. Instead of mindlessly swiping random profiles as you would with Editors’ Choice pick …Coffee stains on carpets can be a real nuisance. Not only can they ruin the look of your carpet, but they can also be difficult to remove. Fortunately, there are a few simple steps...Mar 28, 2023 ... Coffee Meets Bagel has been around since 2012 and famously appeared on Shark Tank where it declined an offer to be bought out by Mark Cuban for ...According to ABC News, Coffee Meets Bagel raised $7.8 million before appearing on Shark Tank in 2015. After that, the company nearly doubled its external funding. While on the show, the founders of Coffee Meets Bagel rejected Shark Tank investor Mark Cuban's $30 million to buy out the company. Keep reading for our in-depth …Bagels, which are in the grains and starches food group, usually take around two to three hours to digest. Foods that are more dense are generally harder to digest and take a longe...Jan 4, 2024 · Coffee Meets Bagel’s impressive rise soon caught the attention of the major dating app players. In mid-2015, Tinder reportedly made an acquisition offer valuing Coffee Meets Bagel at $30 million – the same as Mark Cuban’s Shark Tank valuation. The Kang sisters turned down the offer, believing in their app’s long-term potential. July 23, 2023February 4, 2024 Net Worth by Igor Ovsyannnykov. Coffee Meets Bagel’s Net Worth (Updated 2023) Last Updated on February 4, 2024. What Is …Information about Coffee Meets Bagel is updated every day. Coffee Meets Bagel valuation, number of raised finances, contact details, names of founders, latest news. Dashboard; VC firms; Startups; ... Like a real-life matchmaker, CMB introduces you only to people worth your time.4 days ago · Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: ️ See all your likes: Why wait? Unblur all your likes and match instantly. Key Details of Coffee Meets Bagel’s Pricing. CMB pricing is a hybrid of subscription-based and a la carte purchasing. With subscriptions, the Mini level of service is available at $8.33 per month, $10 per month, or $15 per month.CMB Prompts & Coffee Meets Bagel Review. Coffee Meets Bagel has been around since 2012 and famously appeared on Shark Tank where it declined an offer to be bought out by Mark Cuban for $30 million (latest valuation is $150 million). It’s been widely marketed as a relationship focused app with an emphasis on quality over quantity.July 23, 2023February 4, 2024 Net Worth by Igor Ovsyannnykov. Coffee Meets Bagel’s Net Worth (Updated 2023) Last Updated on February 4, 2024. What Is …It means that he read the message. He opened the app, read the messages, and continued doing what he was doing in real life. It’s best not to overthink these things. “check read status” just CMB trying to get you pay to see if he actually read your message. Coffee Meets Bagel Net Worth 2023. Coffee Meets Bagel seems to be an online dating site. In the hope of inspiring love and dating for the heartbroken people, 3 sisters named Arum, Dawoon and Kang came up with this idea. However, from the very beginning, the site was doing very well. Coffee Meets Bagel net worth is $150 million. MEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many suggested profiles as you want.Jan 4, 2024 · Coffee Meets Bagel’s impressive rise soon caught the attention of the major dating app players. In mid-2015, Tinder reportedly made an acquisition offer valuing Coffee Meets Bagel at $30 million – the same as Mark Cuban’s Shark Tank valuation. The Kang sisters turned down the offer, believing in their app’s long-term potential. Coffee Meets Bagel is a dating app mainly focused on making user’s profiles better and more informational. By doing this they encourage people to engage in quality conversations and form meaningful relationships, instead of just “liking” or “disliking” each other and viewing others just as profiles, which is the case with most of the dating apps …
Jul 1, 2021 · 25 iPhone Apps Worth Paying For; All iPhone Apps; iPad Apps. ... Coffee Meets Bagel is a free mobile app for Android and iOS devices (I primarily tested on an iPhone 12 mini) that pitches itself ... . Games like monopoly go
How does Coffee Meets Bagel work? Users that are familiar with other online dating platforms may find the Coffee Meets Bagel platform different. The company overhauled its app in 2018. However, most users still don’t know how Coffee Meets Bagel work. Some users even confuse the app for an online food delivery company due to its name.Premium Cost. When Premium Coffee Meets Bagel Is Worth It. 3 Tips For Getting More Dates On Coffee Meets Bagel. Let's dive in! Get more matches and go on …What will the net worth of Coffee Meets Bagel be in 2023? Networth202.com estimates the San Francisco-based dating and social networking startup will be worth $150 million in 2023. Whole text. On April 17, 2012, it was initiated by …Spray and pray before gf stage haha. Go on as many dates as possible like job interviews. (Obviously just go for the girls that pick your eye in both looks and bios - how much can you relate to each one. Chat about hobbies and activities you do or music / movie interests & travel or life.and relationship goals like kids & marriage sometimes).Dec 6, 2023 · In this article, we’ll take a closer look at Coffee Meets Bagel’s net worth and growth, as well as what sets them apart in the market. A Glance At Coffee Meets Bagel Coffee Meets Bagel was founded in 2012 by three sisters – Arum, Dawoon, and Soo Kang – who wanted to create a dating app that was more focused on quality over quantity. Coffee Meets Bagel is a dating app, launched in 2012, that offers a more curated experience. ... The "Oracle of Omaha" has purchased in excess of $74 billion worth of his favorite stock since the ...Company profile page for Coffee Meets Bagel Inc including stock price, company news, executives, board members, and contact informationMEET CMB PREMIUM. Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many …Coffee Meets Bagel is a free dating app, but you can always upgrade to Premium for special features. Plus, Premium members get up to 2x more dates. Premium features are subject to change, but here are the current perks you can enjoy: - Unlimited Suggested: Like and pass on as many suggested profiles as you want.Coffee Meets Bagel (CMB) has become a household name in the realm of online dating, offering a unique twist to the conventional approach. As we delve into the net worth of Coffee Meets Bagel, let’s unravel the motivations that led the Kang Sisters to establish this innovative platform and trace its evolution from its inception.Coffee Meets Bagel did not secure a deal on Shark Tank. The three sisters behind the dating platform, Soo Kang, Arum Kang, and Dawoon Kang, asked for $500,000 for 5% equity in their business. Despite the sharks’ interest, they could not reach an agreement. Mark Cuban dropped out early due to the sisters’ refusal to disclose their platform ...Feb 2, 2022 · Coffee Meets Bagel Net Worth. As of March 2024, Coffee Meets Bagel is estimated to be worth $150 million. The app, which was launched in 2010, has seen immense growth over the years and has succeeded amid stiff competition. The company was once able to raise more than $7.8 million in external funding, and this shows the rate of success they have. Coffee Meets Bagel is a dating app that I always thought had a lot of potential. The cutesy-named dating app launched in 2012, positioning itself as the “anti-Tinder,” designed to help people make meaingful, lasting connections. Coffee Meets Bagel was created by three sisters and relied on social media and an …Postum coffee substitute can be ordered online at Postum.com, Amazon.com and VermontCountryStore.com. To find a retail store that sells Postum, enter a zip code in the Store Locato...Coffee Meets Bagel Dating App PROS. • Coffee Meets Bagel limits the amount of users you can like to five per day, which greatly discourages the swipe-now-look-later spirit of apps like Tinder. Thus, Coffee Meets Bagel attracts users who are more discerning and review whole profiles, not just pics. • There are …Sep 19, 2023 · As of 2023, Coffee Meets Bagel net worth is estimated at $150 million. Coffee Meets Bagel’s success story is a source of inspiration for aspiring entrepreneurs and a reminder that sometimes the best decisions are the boldest ones. February 20, 2019. After seeing the toxicity of other dating services, Dawoon Kang created Coffee Meets Bagel as a safer, friendlier alternative. We talked to her about solving the fundamental ....